First, the Roman legions DID NOT beat the phalanx frontally just by being armored swordsmen. German Landsknechts were also a thing, and also included pikemen. Our community welcomes everyone from around the world to discuss world history, historical periods, and themes in history - military history, archaeology, arts and culture, and history in books and movies. [ROME 2]Légion I vs Gaulois. Pike armies can win against heavy sword armed infantry with the proper use of other elements of the army, but there needs to be an exceptional general involved every time to counter the natural advantage of swordsmen. We call it outside the block thinking niw but it dominated the mindest of most successful generals of the Late Republic and their armies. Roman legion vs Macedonian phalanx (Macedonian wars)Battle of Pydna 168 BC and battle of Cynoscephalae 197 BC Support new videos from Epimetheus on Patreon! New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the ancientrome community. Fas est et ab hoste doceri. Posted in the ancientrome community. Copyright © 2006-2020 Historum. It was the phalanx that allowed Greece to become the dominant power in the Western world. I obviously know that the Romans conquered the Greeks but suppose it was a straight fight. Pikemen are more of a temporary trick in history more than a stable way to utilise infantry. Therefore, I created this one expressly for the purpose of discussing the outcome of the various battles fought. And please do not start Rome-bashing. 1:45. That is, until the Romans developed the legion and cracked the phalanx. https://archive.org/details/artofwarinmiddle00omanuoft.

From the time of Ancient Sumeria, the heavy infantry phalanx dominated the battlefield. “Legion vs.Phalanx: The Credibility of Polybius 18.28–32,” paper delivered at the 124th Annual That is an odd thing to say. All rights reserved. In drei Kriegen kämpfte Rom gegen das Königreich Makedonien. Greek Phalanx vs. Roman Legion: A history of the most powerful military formations in the ancient world. Browse more videos. … Or how morale and skill was improved for close combat against a seemingly invincible army of giants by bringing in gladiator lannista to train soldiers in swordsmanship. It wasnt very comfortable but I managed to sleep alright. ———. 1. The armies of Rome and Philip’s phalanx army met at Cynoscephalae, with a large hill separating the two camps. Was the Roman Legion itself a superior force to the Greek's Phalanx, or were they reletively equally effective? How well do you know why one triumphed over the other? 3:09. The Romans themselves used the Phalanx early on among their arsenal but they ditched it out when they saw they needed something else on the battlefield to win their battles aka it was outdated. These films are generally poor educational tools, leaving the audience with many misconceptions; and often more questions than… 4 years ago | 16 views [ROME 2]Légion I vs Gaulois. 1992. That being said, I really must put my money on the legion in this contest; hoplites were not phalangites and the legion was a step away from the earlier hoplite-esque armies that Rome had fielded. Myke Cole asks and tries to answer a simple question in Legion vs Phalanx - what type of military organization is superior. After learning more about both of the formations (Legions for Rome and Phalanxes for Greece) it got me wondering on which one would win. 5 years ago | 2 views. So I've been progressing well in my campaign where I'm Rome and right now I'm defending a north african settlement against a combined Egyptian and Lusitani force where they will deploy pikemen then will tear my legions apart in the direct street warfare that will make up this battle as I have no walls in this settlement. Both created a trend, where pikes became the goto style of infantry for the day. Rome is virtually unstoppable, they've got more resources, more men, more generals, their army can fight on a lot more types of terrain. L. Albinus, an ex-consul, was ordered to lead the second legion against the phalanx of "leucaspides"; these formed the center of the enemy's line. Also the first example of a Roman victory over Macedonian phalanx. I was caught without a tent one night in Vermont while camping (dont ask) and there was a light rain. Armed with spears or pikes, standing shoulder to shoulder with shields interlocking, the men of the phalanx presented an impenetrable wall of wood and metal to the enemy. Just in general! Posted on May 3, 2018 by MSW. Pikemen were certainly more than a temporary trick. This powerful Hellenic formation allowed the This book is exactly what I expected when I picked it up, a fun opportunity to geek out about to technical aspects of ancient warfare, in this case the relative merits of the Macedonian Phalanx vs the Roman Legion. Playing next. I recognize that Congress could make slavery illegal, but that would require the consent of Southern congressmen, who could have blocked (filibuster, etc) passage of the bill. You're missing a couple points. 1:17 The age of pikemen in the medieval era (pike and shot is a more unique trend that doesn't count here) was stopped by Spanish infantry. The best of Fun. Here are the replays of the battle fought so far: To view: Run EB, then go to "Load Game" and click "Load Battle Replay". This battle is considered one of the best examples of manipular roman legion superiority over the macedonian phalanx in terms of flexibility and combat maneuvering. Be specific. Press J to jump to the feed. Report. They both changed the way war would be fought during their time of existence. To be honest, there's a sad truth here in a way. How did the Roman Legion utilize “flexibility” to defeat the Macedonian Phalanx? The true success of the early Roman legion, more so than any tactical flexibility of the maniples, or roman engineering and cunning, was its development of a strong and very large junior officer class. kam es bei Pydna zur Entscheidungsschlacht. The Romans were very flexible so when the Macedonian army was still forming their Phalanx, the legion attacked. The Scots too used pikemen against the English. In Legion versus Phalanx Cole weighs the two fighting forces against each other. The Greek Phalanx and the Roman Legion were two of the most revolutionary war tactics created in the ancient warfare era. Rome : Total War - Les Gaulois balayés. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. What legal right did the North have to abolish slavery? Philip decided to take the initiative and marched out first with the right half of his phalanx, so that they could take the hill and attack downhill. You can council the Diadochi all you want. Rome Total War: Legion vs Phalanx. In the same way infantry with scuta, pila, et gladii were assaulting into cataphracts and chewing them up. It was, by the time of the Antigonid Macedonian armies, in itself an innovation in response to conditions on the ground. Ive done it, and its not that bad. Although both were started for different reasons (Philip to combat hoplites, and Swiss to defend against heavy cavalry) they both ended for the same reason. Recently we discussed the Romans in my ancient history class and my professor made the comment that the Roman Legion was superior to the Greek Phalanx. But trying to boil hundreds of years of military evolution and a lot of extremely complex tactical situations down to "We'll just push their pikes aside" is just not realistic. Was a pike wall/phalanx formation ever defeated from the front in any part of the world in any era by infantrymen armed with non-pike melee weapons? They were armed just as the Romans were, with armor and short swords. Nothing quite like it seen for millenia. Playing next. Legionarys essentially never managed to force their way through a phalanx frontally in the major battles between legionarys and phalangites, and never single-handedly flanked a phalanx-formation either. As for the phalanx vs legionary-discussion, it has been done before. But who would win in a battle between a Roman Legion and a Greek Phalanx? The times of the Philips and Alexanders were long gone by this time and it made no sense to keep the same warfare techniques from back then. Keep reading to find out! Feb 4, 2016 - The organization from Homeric style hero warfare to tightly packed hoplite warfare was world changing. The clash of the two most powerful armies of the ancient world to this day has historians on the edge of their seats. In Sweden, a thoroughly wooded area, pikes were used even in the 1500's and as long as the early 1700's to great effect. The Greek Phalanx and the Roman Legion both brought new and more efficient ways of defeating ones enemy by incorporating genius tactical formations. The largest Roman army sent to Greece was only 30,000 strong – a mere 2.5 per cent of Rome’s total military manpower, or 7 per cent of her maximum mobilized strength in the Second Punic War. That was the turning point of this battle. 21 mai 2016 - Macedonian Phalanx vs Roman Legion - about 150 b.C. JavaScript is disabled. The other thread was getting too confusing and clotted with too many different topics. Imagine what a longer serving Roman army could do with a general who was more adoptable and willing to shed tradition for efficiency. Press J to jump to the feed. And these were periods that often spanned centuries. Rome Total War. Give at least 2 detailed examples from the battle. Myke Cole uses six battles where the two fighting systems clashed, along with the history surrounding them, to discuss this. Take the Quiz: Roman Legion vs. Macedonian Phalanx. Phalanx vs Legion: Battle of Cynoscephalae. I've got quite a lot to say about this. “The Legion as Phalanx,” Chiron 9:303–18. Founded in 2006, Historum is a history forum dedicated to history discussions and historical events. Phillip's reforms molded Macedon into a military superpower by giving its army a fighting advantage over every other form of army it met, until it met the Roman legion. I just want to know wheter either was better than the other. To be fair though... hilly, rocky terrain was a daft place to send a phalanx. LEGION VS. PHALANX Cynoscephalae-1. On the Roman right, where the battle had begun, close to the river, he brought up the elephants and the cohorts of allied troops. Where in Europe - outside of Rome - do you find that? But you can still the phalanx strength despite being outdated and outnumbered, when the opposing wings in the early stages clashed, the Macedonians were on top. Innovation and improvisement in tactics, two hallmarks of Late Republic armies. Legion Vs Phalanx: Which powerhouse Formation was better? Does anyone have any strategies or advice on how to defeat these units? Case in point. 168 v. Chr. 2015 Des 31 - With the popularity of such films as Alexander, 300, and its sequel 300: Rise of Empire a broader audience is being introduced (sometimes for the first time) to the warriors of ancient Greece. Report. Roman Legion vs Greek Phalanx? I am talking about the two major turnarounds pikemen made to the history of warfare: Philip's army that Alexander took into the east, and the Swiss pikemen. The age of pikemen in ancient times was stopped by Roman infantry, encased in adequate armor with short swords. Why the Roman legion was superior to the Macedonian phalanx. The epic battles between the two of them, as well as other parties and them, have most certainly changed history. Pike armies can win against heavy sword armed infantry with the proper use of other elements of the army, but there needs to be an exceptional general involved every time to counter the natural advantage of swordsmen. How you ask? Plain and simple. Alexander's army were incredibly highly disciplined and trained, but political divisions among the Successor States made this difficult to replicate. Case in point, those Spaniards you mentioned relied on the Tercios for a long time, which included pikemen. Also, dividing half your force, and then failing to wait for the other half before attacking, when outnumbered is completely shocking. 29 upvotes, 4 comments. In truth – he answers a more interesting question – why did Rome prevail over the post-Alexander the Great Hellenistic kings? What pre-1861 law gave the North that right? For everything to do with the Roman Kingdom, Republic and the Empire up until the fall of the Western Empire. The phalanx should not be seen as an old-school, rigid formation. If you're referring to phalanx formation, hoplite phalanx is just a way to stand your ground and hold up the charge, REAL EFFECTIVE phalanx is pike phalanx don't ever think that your phalanx can hold their own in front of Roman legionare like in ROme 1 ^^ There is a reason the Romans didnt adopt the pike, there was something seriously wrong with it and the forces that use it. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Follow. Dont do what the enemy expects you to. Of course, I was about 22 at the time, Im not sure I … Gegen die gefürchtete Makedonische Phalanx … The phalanx shoved the legions back while the battle was won on the flanks. Browse more videos. Gamekult. I slept under a tree on some leaves. Phalanx vs legion, Rome's victories in these battles sealed their meteoric rise from Italian 'startup' to Mediterranean superpower. They were armed just as the Romans were, with armor and short swords. The age of pikemen in the medieval era (pike and shot is a more unique trend that doesn't count here) was stopped by Spanish infantry. Feel free to post about Roman architecture, military history, art, archaeological finds and anything else that has links to ancient Rome. Late Republic Romans, working with longer standing armies that they had time to drill and more experienced and dynamic leaders, would have beaten the sarissa phalanx frontally and without much in the way of struggle. As the Romans would say. Whoa. Rome Total War: Legion vs Phalanx. The Greek and Roman warriors are remembered for their power, their strength and their ability to strategise. And this is the important point. So my question is, is he right? Total War Rome 2 Pike Phalanx test (phalanx working) Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts Buy Legion versus Phalanx: The Epic Struggle for Infantry Supremacy in the Ancient World 01 by Cole, Myke (ISBN: 9781472828422) from Amazon's Book Store. This caught the Macedonians off guard and the Romans were able to easily push them back. It was a junior officer in this Battle of Cynoscephalae, who allegedly who under his own discretion, chose to stop attacking the routed Macedonian left flank to attack the other Macedonian flank in the rear and support the failing Roman left flank. Follow. The clash of the ancient world to this day has historians on the ground Western world of... On how to defeat these units of Late Republic and the Romans didnt adopt the,... Else that has links to ancient Rome the Late Republic armies [ Rome 2 ] Légion i Gaulois! Conquered the Greeks but suppose it was the Phalanx should not be cast, more from... 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